http://skeptic-mind.blogspot.nl/2011/09/produce-sura-like-it.html

Produce a Sura like it

• By Unknown
• Tuesday, September 20

You claim that the evidentiary miracle is present and available, namely, the Koran. You say: "Whoever denies it, let him produce a similar one." Indeed, we shall produce a thousand similar, from the works of rhetoricians, eloquent speakers and valiant poets, which are more appropriately phrased and state the issues more succinctly. They convey the meaning better and their rhymed prose is in better meter.

By God what you say astonishes us! You are talking about a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation. Then you say: "Produce something like it"?!

This is how Al-Razi, the brilliant persian polymath and rationalist expressed his utter disbelief towards the Quranic challenge which is proposed in several (52:33-34, 11:13, 2:23, 17:88) verses of the Quran. Allah challenged not only mankind but also the Jinns (ancient mythical creatures of desert arabia) to produce ten chapters or single chapter or 3 verses similar to that of Quran. There are several objections to this supposed challenge readily pop up in my mind. These are the following.

Objection 1: The Quran contains many grammatical, logical and scientific errors in it. It also has glaring contradictions. Now muslims will always deny these facts. Thousands of arguments, counter-arguments, apologetics and counter-apologetics, refutation and counter-refutation, articles and you tube videos have been produced and re-produced which continues to this day and will most likely continue in future. These debates and discussions proves there are people who do not consider Quran a miracle in any sense. I don't think Quran is a literary masterpiece. I don't think it is a miracle.I don't think it is poetic or divine and see no reason to think it is inimitable.

My point is, how many people have to consider something exceptional in order to take it as exceptional? How many muslims need to recognize Quran a literary miracle in order to take Quran's claims as legit? To me, Quran is just another ancient book of mythical stories and guidelines reflecting 7th century moral values written by illiterate, superstitious tribal goat herders. I don't consider it a divine literary masterpiece from a supernatural deity like the millions of muslims do. therefore I don't have to take the claims seriously...yet I'm here writing this article precisely because so many muslims insist on it. it's like, "if you can't prove it is wrong then it is right"!!

Objection 2: Depending upon the different opinions of many muslims, the exact meaning of "surah like it" varies greatly. Some say it has to be eloquent and stylish like Quran, some say the verses should match the exact grammatical rules of Quran, some say verses must have to be meaningful, others say verses should not sound like that of soothsayers or pre-islamic poetry etc. There are many other such conditions muslims insist on in order to make the challenge as hard as possible.

First of all the challenge should not contain conditions like beauty, eloquence, poetic etc. because these factors vary in different observers. they are subjective. I can claim that Leonardo da-Vinci's Monalisa is poetic, beautiful and inimitable. None can produce a similarly beautiful artwork ever. Is my claim a valid challenge if I appeal to subjective emotion? Or does that make Monalisa a divine art if nobody can produce an artwork as beautiful and magnificent as Monalisa? The same could be said about van Beethoven’s extraordinary Ninth Symphony, or Ennio Morricone’s heartrending Gabriel’s Oboe. The point is, beauty and such things are totally subjective in nature. What one person finds beautiful and poetic, other person may reject that as utter gibberish. There's no way to meet these conditions. Besides who's gonna be the judge, what would be his qualities and what would be his religion? There's a helluva lot objections for which no one knows the answers.

Objection 3: Despite all of that, muslims made their mind from the begining that there will be no surahs like Quran. Immediately after the proposed challenge allah says the challenge can never be met. 

But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.

It's worth noting that allah in addition to muslims, have decided that there will be no sura like it! Since muslims have already believed in Quran, no muslim will ever consider any human made sura similar or better than Quran. This is the main reason behind declaring simulated surahs ineligible. Not because of poetry or grammar, but rather because it is considered a disbelief! If any muslim recognizes Quran's fallibility, then immediately he becomes an apostate. And we all know how apostates are dealt with in islam. So I think that this is the main (sublime but intense fear, bias and other emotional) factor that prohibits a muslim from using his better judgement. Allah already claims none will be able to meet the challenge. The challenge is invalid if you refuse to even admit the chance of defeat and declare yourself infallible.

Objection 4: There is a logical fallacy in this challenge. The Quran doesn't specifically say who will be the judge to determine whether the challenge has been met of not. If I produce a piece of literature and claim it supercedes quran's linguistics then there must have to be some person who will judge both literature and declare a verdict. A person who judged my literature AND THE QURAN fully... Then and only then he can give his decision. A person who judged the Quran fully means there is no knowledge given in the Quran that is beyond his understanding capacity. He has understood the Quran 100%. For if he is unable to understand the Quran then he only has partial knowledge and is by default unqualified to be a judge of this challenge.

It is said that ordinary human can not grasp the full knowledge of the Quran because it came from god. Only god has the full knowledge of Quran. The person who says he can be a judge of this challenge has fully understood Quran and nothing in the Quran is beyond his understanding. He is absolutely sure about his knowledge of Quran. Therefore the person who claims to be able to judge the Quran 100% implicitly acknowledging it didn't came from god. Only god can be the judge of this challenge. But the aim of the challenge is to prove the quran is divine which ultimately proves the existence of god. Therefore the challenge is invalid. *Note: to understand the Quran fully means a person is absolutely certain what allah says in the Quran. In his mind, there is not a slightest amount of confusion and no information given in the Quran is beyond his understanding.

Objection 5: We can logically construct a refutation based on this challenge of Quran. Read Irrefutable refutation of islam.

Objection 6: A similar situation can be found in case of Hinduism. The Vedas are a collection of 4 vedic scriptures. It is written in Sanskrit language. Just like the muslims think Quran is divine, Hindus also think Veda is divine in origin, directly revealed and heard (it can be compared to the situation where muhammad heard from gabriel) Just like Quran is the first work of any significant length written in the classical arabic language, Vedas are a large body of texts in oldest sanskrit language. Sanskrit is thought to be the mother of all languages. Now question is: Can muslims bring three verses written in oldest Sanskrit which exceeds the Veda? If they can't then does it prove Veda's divinity? Then they should also start following Vedas.

The concept is called Apaurusheyatva. Basically it says that the phonemes of Vedas are eternal and can not be created or destroyed by anyone. Panini confirmed this in his book. So there is a similarity here. Although I think Vedas don't explicitly make the claim like Quran but the concept is there.

Objection 7: Even if no human can emulate Quran, that does not necessarily make its origin divine. Attributing the Quran to an omnipotent god, & ignoring the other more plausible alternatives (Aliens, Satan, Jinn, Time-Travellers, lingering Atlantean Knowledge, etc) is illogical.

The Guideline: There needs to be a guideline in order to complete this challenge. The surah like it challenge can be divided into three phases, as discussed below.

Phase 1: Creating Surahs [By Kafirs]

Mission: Kafirs assemble to write 1 surah with the same quality and rhythm of the quran.

Odds: - Kafirs are afraid of getting killed by Muslims, so they won’t even think about it

- Kafirs are not capable of writing a single surah because of its miraculous nature, and will back off from the challenge

- Kafirs are not sure whether they can write a surah or not, so they won’t take the risk, and will back off from the challenge

- Kafirs will successfully write 1 surah to meet up with the challenge

Phase 2: Transmission [By Kafirs]

Mission: Kafirs, after writing a surah, will give it to Muslims for evaluation purposes.

Odds: - Kafirs are afraid of getting killed by Muslims, so they won’t advertise their surah

- Kafirs will not give Muslims the surah because the fear of failure and embarrassment

- Kafirs will try to publish the surahs, but some Muslim cowards will persist on obstructing that action (e.g. AOL protestors)

- Kafirs, somehow, will be successful in giving Muslims the surahs for evaluation.

Phase 3: Evaluating Surahs [By Muslims]

Mission: Muslims will assemble to evaluate the surah, to decide whether the challenge is met or not.

Odds: - Muslims will give logical proof that the challenge is not met

- Muslims will be honest and admit that the challenge met

- Muslims will act blind, and will pretend that there is no challenge at all (e.g. most Islamic Institutions)

- Muslims will be very illogical, and will respond by stupid answers (e.g. “Allah said no one can do it!”)

- Muslims, who are terrified from the challenge, will back off by persisting to stay in their imaginary status quo that Islam is “one up,” which is not substantiated by any kind of evidence, thus null.

Now there are several method in which this challenge could be met.

Refutation 1: I could say that, I have met the challenge of Quran of making the similar verse, that is, "Aleef. Jeem. Meem" which is similar to "Alef. Lam. Mem". A muslim might ask what is the meaning of "Alef, Jeem, Mem"? I would answer that the meaning of "Aleef. Lam. Meem" is only known to Allah (the author of the quran) and similarly the meaning of "Alef. Jeem. Mem" is only known to the Author of that verse.

Refutation 2: The following logical refutation was written by Muhammed Chalhoub.

For those muslims who want to argue that none other than Allah is capable of producing something like the Qur'an , I have bad news : the Qur'an itself admits that this supposedly impossible feat has already long been accomplished by certain beings other than Allah , and i can prove it.

In what follows , i will use a method known as proof by contradiction , i.e. i will start out by assuming a few central and essential beliefs in Islam to be true . Then , by analyzing particular Qur'anic verses , i will derive certain implications for each of these assumptions and show them to be contradictory with the rest of the assumptions.

In other words , for those who didn't understand : I will show that the following two central beliefs of Islam are incompatible with each other :

Premise 1 - The Qur'an is perfect and inimitable. Nobody other than Allah, whether human or jinn is capable of producing the equivalent of a surah of the Qur'an (and a surah according to most if not all Islamic websites is equal to at least 3 verses, Fathima Faisal has earlier said that a surah should be equal to 10 words at least). Plus, this perfection and inimitability is maintained all throughout the book.

Premise 2 - The Qur'an is wholly true, i.e. there is no single error/falsehood/lie found in the Qur'an.

Now, take a look at Chapter 72 , Surat Al-Jinn , and read (the following verses are taken from the Pickthall translation):

072.001 Say (O Muhammad): It is revealed unto me that a company of the Jinn gave ear, and they said: Lo! we have heard a marvellous Qur'an,

072.002 Which guideth unto righteousness, so we believe in it and we ascribe no partner unto our Lord.

072.003 And (we believe) that He - exalted be the glory of our Lord! - hath taken neither wife nor son.
continue to read all the way up to verse 20 .

There are a few things to note here:

- In the first 19 verses of the surah , it is clear that the words aren't Allah's words. The Qur'an here is clearly quoting what the jinn supposedly said.

- From the use of first-person narrative mode in those verses, we deduce that the Qur'an isn't simply "paraphrasing" what the jinn supposedly said . Instead , it is quoting their speech as it is, word for word.

- Those verses certainly amount to a surah ( and even more).

So, if we assume that #2 earlier ( that the Qur'an is wholly true) is correct, then it is a fact that at some point of time in the past, the jinn said precisely those words. But since those exact words were included in the Qur'an among Allah's words, that can only imply that they are of the same style and eloquence as Allah's words, and therefore #1 is false and the Qur'an is NOT inimitable since - according it - the jinn had managed to produce something similar.

The only way a muslim could find out of this, and the only way to maintain his/her book's inimitability is to claim that those words have never actually been said by the jinn ( or anyone else), and that the Qur'an perhaps said so simply for rhetorical purposes. However, this claim would directly contradict assumption # 2 since the Qur'an in that case would not be wholly true.

Refutation 3: Listen to this Video.

Sura al-Dajaj سورة الدجاج

Another one: These are three arabic verses produced by Muadit Muanqady.

إذا جاء خسارة الله و الهزيمة * و رأيت الناس يخرجون من دين الله أفواجا * فاستمتع بنعمة العقل إن الله كان زهوقا

Here are some other verses produced by Native Arabic speakers: 2 Surahs ( Chapter ) whose verses have the same rhyming and style as that of the Qur'an.

The first one is called Surat Al-La Deeniyon ( i.e. "The Surah of The Non-Religious"). It starts out by explaining who the non-religious are , then carries on by pointing out scientific and logical errors in the Qur'an, and ending with a message for everyone to adhere to humanistic rather than religious principles.

The second one is Surat Al ' ilm (The Surah of Science) . It starts out by explaining how the islamic world declined since they started relying on revelation rather than reason. And then carries on until the end by debunking claims of scientific miracles and pointing out scientific errors in the Qur'an just like the first one, and all this with a style that matches that of the Qur'an.

Here is an English one produced by Saif Rahman which in my opinion, sounds very poetic and eloquent. It's called Surat al ByManat Noon.
Alif .X.Z.

1. Verily, this verse is unlike any other
2. A clear prose for those willing to believe.
3. And have we not told you the story of Lyar?
4. Verily, he was wise and Kiddermaan and Bullmaan as well.
5. O People! Tell your women to stay in the homes
6. For verily, it is better for them, if only they knew.
7. And that they should not create undue attention
8. with petty banter and laughter.
9. And what is like the stars? Shall I strike you a similitude?
10. For the sun is a signs of my mercy and greatness,
11. as it radiates in servitude
12. For you shall have fear of the lord and remember well
13. his benevolence. For verily, S’alah is all knowing, and all seeing.
14. And those of you who fast and submit to the way of the Lord,
15. verily, they shall eat grapes on reclining chairs forever and ever.
16. But those whose brains S’alah hath rewired,
17. verily, their souls shall be immersed in molten lead and shall
18. drink potassium permanganate as an everlasting torment, though they cry
19. 'Our lord! We would have believed if you had shown us evidence!'
20. But verily, I did show them but it's too late for them now.
21. Lo, did I not present them with this passage which is clear?

(Saifhall translation)

Refutation 4: In this article, the "Islamic Awareness" team attempts to defend the Qurânic challenge - that none can produce "a sûrah like it". The article begins with an informative discussion of Arabic poetry, and then tells us:

So, the challenge, as Abdur Rahîm Green mentions, is to produce in Arabic, three lines, that do not fall into one of these sixteen al-Bihar, that is not rhyming prose, nor like the speech of soothsayers [Emphasis is ours], and not normal speech, that it should contain at least a comprehensible meaning and rhetoric, i.e. not gobbledygook. Indeed,

The Quran is not verse, but it is rhythmic. The rhythm of some verses resemble the regularity of saj, and both are rhymed, while some verses have a similarity to Rajaz in its vigour and rapidity. But it was recognized by Quraysh critics to belong to neither one nor the other category.

Quotes provided by the "Islamic Awareness" team must also be placed in the context in which they were written. In this case, Beeston, Johnstone, Serjeant and Smith were quoting Mubarak's Nathr. The authors agree that the Qur'an is in a literary category of its own. However, on pages 196-197, they tell us:

The Qur'an is written throughout in rhyming prose (saj'), and appears therefore, to a greater or lesser extent, artistically constructed and strongly rhetorical in comparison with ordinary prose. The individual parts of a sentence, the sentence or combination of sentences which end with a rhyme and are called verses (ayah, plural ayat) follow the rhyme scheme a-a, b-b, c-c. The same rhyme is repeated not only once but as often as the author pleases, e.g. a-a-a, b-b, c-c-c-c (surah ci). Short surahs sometimes have only one rhyme. Ideally, as in the earliest surahs, the rhymes follow in rapid succession at fairly equal intervals; this also seems to have been the case with the rhymes of the ancient Arabic soothsayers. (Presumably the Prophet in fact adopted the alternation of short rhyme sequences from the practice of these soothsayers...). In the surahs from the latter years of Muhammad's career the verses lengthen increasingly, and the rhymes no longer have the effect of rhetorically enlivening elements, but sound monotonous and often forced, as though they have been added later.

On page 198, we are told:

A large number of early pronouncements in the Qur'an are introduced by strange oaths, or rather asseverations, a stylistic device which Muhammad in all probability copied from the old Arabic soothsayers.

What Do The Orientalists Say About The Inimitability Of The Qur'ân?

The "Islamic Awareness" team provides us with several quotes from H.A.R. Gibb which cast a favorable light on the style of the Qur'an. They establish his credibility by stating:

The famous Arabist from University of Oxford, Hamilton Gibb was open upon about the style of the Qur'ân.

H.A.R. Gibb indeed admired the literary merits of the Qur'an :

Though to be sure, the question of literary merit is one not to be judged on a priorigrounds but in relation to the genius of the Arabic language; and no man in fifteen hundred years has ever played on that deep-toned instrument with such power, such boldness, and such range of emotional effect as Mohammed did. (Mohammedanism; an historical survey, London, New York, Oxford University Press, 1953, p. 37)

However, Gibb was indeed "open" about the style when he said, on the previous page (36) :

In the earliest period of his preaching Mohammed's utterances were delivered in a sinewy oracular style cast into short rhymed phrases, often obscure and sometimes preceded by one or more formal oaths. This style is admittedly that of the ancient kahinsor Arabian oracle-mongers, and it is not surprising that Mohammed's opponents should have charged him with being just another such kahin. For this and other reasons his style gradually loosened out into a simpler but still rhetorical prose; and as social denunciations and eschatological visions passed into historical narrative, and that in turn at Medina into legislation and topical addresses, little was left of its original stylistic features but a loose rhyme or assonance marking the end of each verse, now anything from ten to sixty words long.

see Pro and Contra arguments and a related thread.

In the book The Art of Reciting the Qur'an by Kristina Nelson who is a trained arabist and musicologist, it is said that some of the verses of Quran indeed follow certain Bihars.

Refutation 5: Is the Qur’ān Inimitable? See the video from Klingschore or read the article here which clearly shows with references that heterodox Arabic materials were considered by Muhammad’s family, companions and even the greatest reciters and memorizers of the Quran to be part of the true revelation, but according to orthodox Islāmic tradition, these were fabricated chapters and verses.

Refutation 6:

• You most probably know the website Sura like it where it contains several surahs imitating Quran.
• Check out the FSM Quran written by Muddy Abbas where he has provided far more scientifically accurate information than Muhammad's Quran.
• And The True Furqan.

http://skeptic-mind.blogspot.nl/2011/09/produce-sura-like-it.html